supersports

For those interested in competing 4 cylinder Morgans

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Mark Shears
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Re: supersports

Post by Mark Shears »

Hi Andy,

Thanks for posting. This is the same car shown in the posting ' +4 SS for sale with Historic Cars'.

It is a road going Super Sports but if anyone wants a pukka racing Plus 4 Super Sports then the ex: Hugh Braithwaite car is for sale in Germany.

It is registration number 5266 MM and was ordered by Chris Lawrence at the same time as chassis number 4840 first registered XRX 1.

It is chassis number 4860 and so is on the list! It was originally painted dark blue and has a very nice period race history.

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1294935

Look forward to seeing you again as soon as...

Cheers

Mark
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Mary Lindsay
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Re: supersports

Post by Mary Lindsay »

We once owned the car that is up for sale in Germany and it as far as I know it isn't a supersports although it is a Lawrence car.
Here seen racing circa 1970 before we bought it .
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John Clarke
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Re: supersports

Post by John Clarke »

6328 for sale here in Australia.

Still red, still RHD and hasn't left the shores where first delivered by the factory. Added bonus of factory fitted slippy diff.

All fine here, thanks for asking. No corona virus here since April 2000 but Perth IS the most isolated city in the world!!

https://www.morganownersclub.com.au/page8.html

Stay safe (and warm and dry)

cheers
john
8-)
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Richard Clement
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Re: supersports

Post by Richard Clement »

Hi All,

It might be my eye sight but I'm not convinced that the Ken Hill list is correct!

That is as I cannot see Chassis Number 5560, Engine Number CT17008, Registration Number AWP 77B, which I know for a fact is a genuine Plus 4 Supersports, as it was purchase from New by Brian Jenkins who then competed in it 1964 to 1974 and if I ask Brian and he goes through his archive he's probably still got the original receipt!

Richard
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RICHARD PLANT
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Re: supersports

Post by RICHARD PLANT »

Hi Richard

Long time no speak and hope you’re all well and please pass my regards onto Colin.

I have Brian’s car (AWP) down in my records as S/S car no 53... chassis number 5569 with engine number CT17088 ?

My records are NOT the same as Ken Hill’s but interestingly Ken also has Brian’s car down as 5569 in his book but with a different engine number CT19088 which must be a typo error...?

Cheers
Richard
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Richard Clement
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Re: supersports

Post by Richard Clement »

Hi Richard,

All well thanks and trust you and the family are also.

It's my mistake (or rather Cheffins, as I took my numbers from an Auction Catalogue on Colin's book shelf). AWP is Chassis Number 5569, Engine Number CT17088 and that I've taken from an article of many years ago that I wrote on Brian and he prof read for me.

Richard
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Mary Lindsay
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Re: supersports

Post by Mary Lindsay »

Ken Hill was a lovely man and a true Morgan enthusiast but he did sometimes get it wrong. I think his records are probably a good guide but are not infallible.

Machiel Kalf has a huge collection of documents and information especially on the subject of Lawrencetune cars.
ian cummings
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Re: supersports

Post by ian cummings »

Hi,
Interesting list Andy. Please to see mine is on there! I wonder how many are still around.

Ian
machiel kalf
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Re: supersports

Post by machiel kalf »

Hallo Ian,

Yes, it should be interesting to see how many are (driving) around. Well, for a start, there are 2 in Holland. Maybe we can organize something under the wings of the MHR? Maybe you are interested to help with a job like that. For myself: I am busy enough with everything concerning the MHR. Don't worry, I am not complaining. It's more the opposite, how busier how better. But it's nice if someone else does a job he likes to do. If it helps, like Mary said, I have an Lawrence Tune archive, a list with all the factory details about this type of Morgans. In case you need help with it, you can count on me.

All the best everybody, please, stay safe,

Machiel.
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Mark Shears
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Re: supersports

Post by Mark Shears »

Hi Mary,

Hope you are keeping well and look forward to seeing you at some windswept ex: RAF airfield somewhere as soon as...!

Do you say that 5266 MM is a Lawrencetune car as opposed to a Super Sports because it is one of the early batch of high line cars?

Cheers

Mark
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Mary Lindsay
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Re: supersports

Post by Mary Lindsay »

That is my view yes and I think Machiel is of the same opinion.
ian cummings
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Re: supersports

Post by ian cummings »

Hello Machiel,
I'm not sure I'd know where to start it's seems quite a minefield but if you have the starts of a list along with John's /Ken Hill's list that might be the place to start from. Happy for you to email me.

Ian
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simon king
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Re: supersports

Post by simon king »

Hi All,

I cannot vouch for any cars that came before or after FOJ in terms of build and whether they are or are not a Super Sports. The list of Super Sports I have is, I think, consistent with that posted by John, and FOJ for example is on both lists. I do not know the exact source of my list and I have not reconciled it with John's Ken Hill list. Either or both lists may or may not be 100% accurate/definitive which of course is great because it feeds the debate and opinions proffered.

With FOJ I have a copy of the factory build record. This states in the remarks "R.H.CONTROLS SUPER SPORTS". It is only a copy, so it could be someone added this note at some point to mislead me/us. In the extract I have, another car chassis 5097 (not a SS per my list or Ken's), also has a similar annotation, i.e. "L.H.CONTROLS". So perhaps the chassis record extract I have is period correct and it's not the result of some machiavellian mischief?

Fortunately, I do have one original document, the original log book from when the Morgan Motor Company (the first keeper) first registered FOJ in March '62. When MMC registered the car they did so with the model description as a 'Plus 4 S. Sports'. For me then I am satisfied FOJ is a Super Sports. It is also interesting that even though some have the opinion that the only 'real' Super Sports cars are the low-line cars (perhaps based on the personal view of Peter Morgan or Chris Lawrence etc) it seems despite this, the factory considered the cars they were building and registering from as early at 21st March '62 at least were Super Sports - even when with the high-line body! Or I suppose it could be the person at the post office or factory (wherever the log books were filled out?) said, "oh no, I can't possibly fit 'Lawrence Tune Morgan Plus 4' on here, tell you what, let's just put it down as a ....."

Simon
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Mark Shears
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Re: supersports

Post by Mark Shears »

More likely Simon is that Super Sports was an old Morgan nomenclature for their most sporting of models going back of course to early three wheeler days.

And as such it was a Morgan description and not a reference to an out sourced supplier like Lawrence Tune.

And as you say the factory obviously considered them to be Super Sports at the time - whether with a high line body or the subsequent low line body.

Like FOJ, 5266 MM was referred to in period as a Super Sports...

Cheers

Mark
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