RACING +4s

For those interested in competing 4 cylinder Morgans

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Andy Downes
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RACING +4s

Post by Andy Downes »

Well this site is under the Mogsport umbrella - so time for some Mog Sport I think whilst the cold winter days are here :)

Richard Plant recently sent me what I consider to be just the best period shot of Morgans racing - Thank You Richard.

We know a bit about it - but what do you think ?

Any ideas about when or where it is, and what about the cars and drivers ?

Just post below and we'll build up the details - Have Fun 8-)

Andy


You're getting closer - especially Jochem 8-)

It is in fact;
Goodwood Marque Scratch Race at the 59th Members Meeting 21st September 1963
1st car - Brian Kendall in 818 AOA, newly acquired from Adrian Dence.
2nd car - Gordon Spice in 581 DOK fitted with a Lawrence X-flow head.
3rd car - Bernard Unett (Rootes employee) in Sunbeam Alpine XRW 302
4th car - Adrian Dence in the Le Mans TOK now fitted with a Lawrence X-flow head before being registered as JHX 142B.
5th car - Terry Sanger in his ex-John Dangerfield? ex-Lawrence, original 1960 TOK, registered at the time of the photo as 405 FXO but not on the car.
7th car - Is indeed the A McHardy TVR Grantura 1622cc
8th car - Is Neil Dangerfield in John Sprinzel’s TR4
9th car - is W G White in 208 FOJ +4 1991cc

Morgans listed for the race are;
33 Terry Sanger +4 1991cc 4th
34 W G White +4 1991cc 9th
35 Adrian Dence +4 (TOK 258) 1991cc 1st
36 Brian Kendall +4 2138cc 3rd
37 Gordon Spice +4 (581 DOK) 2196cc 2nd
38 B Haslam +4 2138cc 11th
39 J S Tucker +4 1991 DNS
Equal Fastest Lap Dence/Kendall/Spice 1.42.2
Kendall led until lap 3, then Spice got by, but Dence came through to win – Lawrencetune 1-2-3-4 =D> =D> =D>
Last edited by Andy Downes on Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:28 am, edited 22 times in total.
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Bob Bull
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Re: RACING +4s

Post by Bob Bull »

Surely Goodwood after inclusion of chicane and prior to the more permanent version, so I would hazard a guess at 1952, but not at a 'public meeting', so a closed club event.

Second thought; The chicane was decided upon in late 1951, and may have been first installed at the end of the 1951 season and looking at the weather that might fit.
I have no idea about drivers, but I think the two leading cars are possibly Morgans.
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RACING +4s

Post by Jim Mountain »

.
Last edited by Jim Mountain on Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
john bevan
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Re: RACING +4s

Post by john bevan »

Is that a TVR or Lotus Elite at the back- would help to date it?
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Bob Bull
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Re: RACING +4s

Post by Bob Bull »

Maybe not Goodwood then as by 1953 the Chicane or Paddock Bend as it was, looked pretty much like it does today.
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Jochem Kentgens
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Re: RACING +4s

Post by Jochem Kentgens »

I would even say post le mans '62 as the car in 4th position (behind the Sunbeam Alpine) is a low line SS so that must be 1962 or later and although not 100% clear I I believe it's registration to be TOK 258. That must be, because you even see the yellow dot sticker at it's door, indicating it's le mans history.

Some of the other cars have the low line LT hardtop fitted.

For the eagle eyed amongst us: does TOK have an oval shaped hole in the bonnet, just visible behind it's head light? In that case it will even be 1963 or later as this was done for the cross flow set up.

Car in 2nd position - 581 DOK might be Gordon Spice?

Best wishes, Jochem
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Andy Downes
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Re: RACING +4s

Post by Andy Downes »

I have updated some details and posted them underneath the original picture.

Any further thoughts ladies & gentleman 8-)

Have Fun 8-)

Andy
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Bob Bull
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Re: RACING +4s

Post by Bob Bull »

Andy,
I find it difficult to believe that the picture was taken at Goodwood in 1963! There should be a lot more grandstands in the background, as the circuit was in it's hey day in 1963, and was well developed with safety features etc. As the picture has disappeared it is dificult to quote chapter and verse, but there are plenty of pictures from the circuit in period, and none look like this.

My Theory? You have been either mistaken and it is not Goodwood or someone has 'photo shopped' the image.

Fraud on BHP? Disgusting.

Bob CID.
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Re: RACING +4s

Post by Hermen Pol »

Cannot see the picture :-(

Can anyone send this picture to me at plus4plus@live.nl?
Any other pictures of TOK/JHX/XRX1 are most welcome too!

Many thanks in advance.

Hermen
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Andy Downes
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Re: RACING +4s

Post by Andy Downes »

Apologies for the loss of the picture - technical hitch on my part should be back now :oops:

On the way to you Herman 8-)

Bob, it very definitely is Goodwood in 1963.

Andy
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Re: RACING +4s

Post by Bob Bull »

Andy,
After extensive research I agree it is Goodwood, as I have found pictures taken from the same spot in 1964 with an identical background to your picture, and very similar weather conditions. I have plenty of shots taken at the chicane over the years and most show a completely different background, so I suppose that there was a particular angle that gave an impression that there was less development than there was.
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simon king
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Re: RACING +4s

Post by simon king »

As this is the Goodwood Marque Scratch Race at the 59th Members Meeting 21st September 1963 then the car that is running 9th is No.34, i.e. 208 FOJ (declared as 1991cc) driven by WG (Bill) White.

Regards,

Simon
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Andy Downes
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Re: RACING +4s

Post by Andy Downes »

simon king wrote:As this is the Goodwood Marque Scratch Race at the 59th Members Meeting 21st September 1963 then the car that is running 9th is No.34, i.e. 208 FOJ (declared as 1991cc) driven by WG (Bill) White.
Simon, you're quite correct but I'm interested how you would know that (and the Reg number too !).

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simon king
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Re: RACING +4s

Post by simon king »

Hi Andy,

And FOj (+4 Super Sports) finished with a time of 9'19.0" (5 laps). :wink:

When I was researching FOJ's history, I heard about a book "A Record of Motor Racing at Goodwood" by Robert Barker. Tim Hill has a copy and provided details of FOJ's participation in the 58th, 59th,61st,62nd,63rd Members meetings.

Regards,

Simon
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Andy Downes
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Re: RACING +4s

Post by Andy Downes »

AAAhhhaaaa,

Simon you have unlocked my source :lol:

Jack Bellinger also has a copy (on long-term loan to me :wink: ) Richard sent me the picture with some comments and I managed to identify the race from the cars and their numbers and Jack's generosity !
So did you take all the details from the race or just FOJ's.

Have Fun 8-)

Andy
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