Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby simon king » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:27 pm

Hi Machiel,

How are you sure that the SS chassis #5004 that is coming up for auction is not the original car? As advertised it seems to have the correct engine # and documentation from factory to confirm provenance. Seems quite a bold statement to make otherwise.

Regards,

Simon
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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby Bob Bull » Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:07 am

The Castle Combe Circuit By Peter Stowe





October 1955 Hastings Trophy Formule Libre front row: Ron Flockhart - BRM V16, Harry Schell - Vanwall, Bob Gerard - Cooper-Bristol (Image: Castle Combe Circuit Ltd)
Castle Combe Circuit in north-west Wiltshire is one of the longest established in the UK, having first opened in July 1950. During the following six decades many famous names from British racing history, including future World Champions from Mike Hawthorn to Damon Hill, have appeared at the track, in company with most of the well-known names of British motor racing of the period.

Created by the local Bristol Motor Cycle & Light Car Club, with the enthusiastic support of the landowner, Kay Thomas, the circuit follows the 1.84-mile perimeter road of the former RAF training aerodrome that had been constructed on open farmland to the east of Castle Combe village during World War 2.

The first, low-key, club meeting in July 1950 saw David Wilkins win the first ever race, on a 500cc Triumph clubman’s motorcycle, and Jim Sparrowe (Morgan) the first ever car race. In October that year the first national meeting was held and a young Stirling Moss won a trio of races in an HWM single-seater, a sports Frazer Nash and a Cooper 500.

I found this while researching something else, so stuck it up hoping to make amends for previous misdemeanours, however, if it has no relevance feel free to move or delete the post.

Uncle Bob
Ace Photograp…… you know!
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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby Mary Lindsay » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:29 pm

Well found Bob.

Some time ago Peter Stowe kindly sent me a copy of the article which I published on the Challenge web site, it is linked from the History page:

http://www.morganchallenge.co.uk/Pages/history.html

Direct link to the article here:

http://www.morganchallenge.co.uk/Images/Morgans_at_Castle_Combe.pdf
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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby Leigh Sebba » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:40 pm

The +8 shown in Castle Combe web page captioned 1982 Tom Hinds is the car that Bob Fawkes now sometimes races
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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby peter rafter » Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:13 pm

for the eclectic bunch...
I have just watched a classic car programme on Quest re a plus 4 super sports in the USA
which was restored following damage in a 60s/70s film (wife drives SUV over it in spat).
FJ40 purchase it from widow of restorer and runs it at Lime Rock where it spews coolant.
I cannot vouch for authenticity, i.e. whether was orig or not, , but know a man who can!!!
ps
I once owned a genuine super sports ==in this dream i had
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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby Leigh Sebba » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:10 pm

See Bonhams auction Amelia Island 12 March

Lot 141 is a Super Sport - which Bonhams admit in the info that there is some confusion over chassis numbers ! ‘One of only 4 factory cars built to full race spec’. Raced 1963/4 at Sebring, Daytona, etc

Lot 142 is a +4+ (not yet looked it up on my notes)
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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby Leigh Sebba » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:12 pm

To be fair they say the chassis number confusion has been resolved :)
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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby simon king » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:19 pm

Perhaps I can conclude this debate with a few observations for consideration for those with an interest in the Super Sports.

Obviously a lot has been made of Chris and Jake’s book latest book ‘The LawrenceTune Years’ but we should not overlook the research included in their previous book ‘The Heritage Years’.

From ‘The Heritage Years’:
p365 - from Autosport (Sept 16th) - ‘The Morgan Motor Company intend to market a competition Plus 4 in limited quantities……’

p365 - from Sept/Oct edition of Miscellany - 'Stop Press!!! A “Super Sports” Plus Four will soon be on the market’. Jake and Chris add this is the first reference they have found to “Super Sports” being selected for this new car.

p370 - following the Motor Show at Earls Court (19-29th Oct 1960) Autosport magazine commented “Very exciting indeed is the Super Sports Morgan Plus 4…..What about a road test Peter Morgan?”

p371- includes a picture of the Super Sports engine produced by LawrenceTune.

p377- includes the reference to the Dec 30th issue of Autosport where John Bolster does a road test in TOK and references the recently announced Super Sports model.

p379 - includes a photo of the Westerham Motors Ltd stand at the BRSCC’s Racing Car Show (31st Dec 1960). What is interesting about the photo is that there is a Super Sports Lawrence Tune engine on display and in front of that is a board that says:
“LAWRENCETUNE TRIUMPH TR3 ENGINE

THIS ENGINE IS SHOWN IN THE FORM IN
WHICH IT IS FITTED IN THE SUPER SPORTS MORGAN
BY: THE MORGAN MOTOR CO.
EXCHANGE AND NEW ENGINES ARE AVAILABLE
GIVING 116B.H.P AT 5000 R.P.M.”

Image

The first Super Sports, 4749, is recorded in the factory build records as a ‘Super Sports’ - I have seen the photocopy of the original build sheet.
The Morgan Motor Company in May 1972 confirmed in writing to the then owner that 4749 was a ’Super Sports’ - I have seen the letter.

It may be that Peter Morgan and Chris Lawrence over the passage of time came to view the ‘Low Line’ evolution of the Super Sports as the finished article and their personal preference but it seems to be clear from period documentation of events (rather than recollection) that the ‘Super Sports’ was conceived in 1960, put into limited production from 1961 and evolved to use the 4/4 body for reasons we all know from mid 1962 onwards until production came to an end.

Simon
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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby Mark Shears » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:53 pm

Hi Simon,

Yes I think you have summarised the nomenclature exactly.

It certainly agrees with all my findings and I can also endorse the fact that the factory build sheets describe both the highline and lowline cars as Super Sports - from my own copies of factory records.

Likewise if the factory built a 4 seater or a drophead to Super Sports spec. it is thus described.

Cheers

Mark
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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby Robin Singleton » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:16 pm

Just to update

Lot 141 at Bonhams auction, the +4 SS from the Bill Fink collection seems to have been sold at a shade under £100,000.

Good value when you see what some other cars make these days!

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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby peter rafter » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:14 pm

Beamish have a Original Supersports for sale
I checked my piggy bank but remembered that i emptied it for Mr Eales
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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby Mark Shears » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:07 pm

Do keep up Peter!

This is the same one they ran through the H & H Auction at the end of February.

It didn't sell and so is back on the market at mid estimate price.

Cheers

Mark
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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby simon king » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:27 pm

Oh dear...

From Newsletter number 4 of the MSCC Historic Register

On top of that we are already working on a Tribute to Christopher Lawrence. Chris played an important role in the history of the Morgan brand; and he became well known in motorsport circles racing his famous Morgan +4 with registration number TOK 258. From 1959 on he was a very serious competitor in sports car racing, and it’s no secret that his influence on the development of the Morgan +4 was enormous. He developed the TR3 and TR4(a) racing engines; tuned by Chris’ own company called Lawrence Tune (LT). In the beginning the +4’s with an LT-engine were called Super Sports; but later, when the low line bodies (4/4 Series IV or V) were used, the +4 Super Sport became an official Morgan model.


Seems like the editor of the Newsletter retains a different opinion despite the previous postings on what is and is not a Super Sports. The homologation papers describe the cars as +4 Super Sports too.

Simon
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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby Bill Hughes » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:57 pm

Hi All,
Just bought this photo off eBay, do not have 'The Lawrence Tune Years' (too modern for me) to see if this car was photographed much during it's career in this form.
Image
Regards
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Re: Morgan +4 Super Sports and +4+

Postby machiel kalf » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:28 pm

Dear Bill,

What a GREAT catch! Well done! Where do you think this is? Is it written on the backside of the photo? Is it Goodwood?

Maybe you know it, maybe not, but I am a fanatic collector of everything about Morgan racing in The Sixties. With an extra sharpe eye for items that have to do with Le Mans 1962. A huge pile of magazines with LM62 articles. I have all the editions of the News Papers printed during the LM62 weekend. did you know that one specific News Paper had 5 editions during Saturday and Sunday 23 & 24 of June 1962.

Do you think it's possible to make a scan of the photo? I happy with a scan. Of course I pay the costs!!

Please, let me know when this photo was made and where!

Best regards, THANKS for showing,

Machiel.
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