1939 "Le Mans" CSF266

Series I talk - racing or otherwise

Moderator: John Clarke

1939 "Le Mans" CSF266

Postby Bill Hughes » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:33 am

1939 "Le Mans" CSF266

According to the designation used by Ken Hill, this would be a "Le Mans Replica", although the records only denote "Le Mans", original specification: "Climax 1098cc, 2 seater "Le Mans", Blue with Aluminium Spoked Disc Wheels, specially tuned engine, O/S exhaust etc."
Delivered to Frank Spouse Ltd, Glasgow, hence the Edinburgh registration.
From the past owner:
"These are the photos in which you were interested of my Le Mans Morgan, taken in the rather chilly winter of '45/'46. There is no windscreen on the car as it was toughened glass and the car I was following on the A4 from London to Henley flung up a stone shattering it. It took some months to get it repaired."
Regards
Bill
Attachments
photos1small.jpg
photos1small.jpg (126.46 KiB) Viewed 5806 times
Bill Hughes
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:44 am
Location: South Wales, UK

Re: 1939 "Le Mans" CSF266

Postby John Clarke » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:11 am

Hi Bill

Please tell us more!! I'm intrigued.

I agree with you, Ken Hill seemed to have the best handle on the special 4-4s which together with Chris and Jake's excellent book, sheds some light on these wonderful cars. Ken states there were 3 Le Mans Replicas - we know these to be JTT 703, JUO 177 and KPH 486.

Looking at the photos of CSF 266, she looks more like at TT Rep ie there is a clear step from the back of the luggage compartment to the sloping rear panel. The LM Reps were smooth rather than stepped. CAB 652 I thought was the only surviving TT Rep....perhaps CSF is another???

Ken states that there were 7 Le Mans Specials, six 2 seaters and one 4 seater (EVR 804). The two seaters had "twin upright spare wheels". CSF shows one spare wheel on a sloping panel.

So what have you found out Bill?....CSF looks a fantastic car.....I'm not sure its a LM Rep but maybe a TT Rep???

Kind regards

john
User avatar
John Clarke
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:19 pm
Location: Perth WA/Great Missenden UK

Re: 1939 "Le Mans" CSF266

Postby Bill Hughes » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:46 pm

Hi there,

If I am reading the timeline correctly, at the time that the “Le Mans Replica” was advertised for sale (Feb 1939), BNP370 was still in September 1938 Brooklands MCC trim, as suggested by descriptions of the advert (which I haven’t seen). Thus if any orders were forthcoming, I would expect the body style to reflect the Le Mans car as it was at that time.

The pictures of the 1938 Brooklands event show the car with the step in the rear panel and the tonneau studs vertical (as per CSF266, also Feb 1939).

One factor seems to suggest that the car was built to a defined specification, as the records state “o/s exhaust, etc” whereas previous cars the specification had to be detailed item by item (as per the list of optional extras described in the article by Jake Alderson in Miscellany).

Literature suggests that the rebodying of BNP370 was complete by mid-April 1939, so this would have been the first time the embedded spare had been seen, and so the later Le Mans Replicas (KPH486 (June 1939), JUO177 and JTT703(~July 1939)) would duplicate this style (being back-up cars for the 1940 event).

Regards

Bill
Bill Hughes
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:44 am
Location: South Wales, UK

Re: 1939 "Le Mans" CSF266

Postby John Clarke » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:21 am

Hi Bill... you make an interesting point. I've not seen the factory records for the "specials". As you say, Ken categorised the cars into Le Mans Reps, TT Reps and Le Mans Specials based on body styles...I assume the factory listed them all as Le Mans cars.....is this correct?? Hence if Ken was still alive, he would call CSF a TT Rep?

Love to know more about the car though. Great find

regards

john
User avatar
John Clarke
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:19 pm
Location: Perth WA/Great Missenden UK

Re: 1939 "Le Mans" CSF266

Postby Bill Hughes » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:15 pm

Hi John,
Thanks to Jake Alderson I now have a copy of the article in The Light Car regarding the introduction of the Le Mans Replica. As the image shows, the car was modelled upon the appearance of BNP370 as it was in Sept 1938.
Another Feb 1939 Le Mans Replica was HPH750, as owned by the Render brothers (see Morgan Sports Cars - The Early Years), this car is recorded as "Le Mans", but the order specifies a standard rear body, fuel tank and two spare wheels.

Image

Sad to inform you that the elderly gentleman ( Mr Alec Woods ) who gave me the information on CSF266 passed away during October aged 89.
Regards
Bill
Last edited by Bill Hughes on Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bill Hughes
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:44 am
Location: South Wales, UK

Re: 1939 "Le Mans" CSF266

Postby John Clarke » Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:48 pm

All very sad.

Good detective work re The Light Car - is it possible to post the whole article? It doesn't appear in my Morgan Plus 4 and Four 4 Gold Portfolio (RM Clarke). Makes me think that published understanding of the LM/TT rep cars todate needs a bit of a rewrite.

I notice that on the Light Car LM car, there is a suage line under the bonnet louvres - this also appeared on the Fawcett/White/Anthony car....but not on CSF 266...what should we read (if anything) into that?

I hope that CSF will be looked after.

regards
john
User avatar
John Clarke
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:19 pm
Location: Perth WA/Great Missenden UK

Re: 1939 "Le Mans" CSF266

Postby Bill Hughes » Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:18 pm

Hi there,
Will post the whole article shortly.
The car in the "Light Car" image is BNP370/FXD280, the bonnet fasteners are still the early large AMAL type as seen in the images of the car at Le Mans (escutcheon plate fastened by a single setscrew, type not used since car #0421). The radiator still has the overflow pipe as per page 38 of MSC-TEY, and the headlamps are not as per the production model.
I'll leave the rewrite to Hermen....
Regards
Bill
Bill Hughes
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:44 am
Location: South Wales, UK

Re: 1939 "Le Mans" CSF266 & HPH750

Postby RON STRIDE » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:21 am

I would really like to know whether HPH750 has survived until 2018.
HPH750 was campaigned by the Rendle brothers in 1948.
While HPH750 looked similar to a Le Mans Replica, it was in fact a Le Mans Special with normal fuel tank, special 1098 cc Climax engine
and twin vertical spare wheels. Six were made in 1939. My car had a 50% windscreen height and an external left side exhaust.
I drove it as a commuter road car in South London in the 1960's and sold it for 100GBP in 1964 when my first child was born.
I now live in Australia, but visit UK regularly and would love to see it again if it exists!
Ron Stride
rstride@bigpond.net.au
+61 418 345 659
RON STRIDE
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:56 am

Re: 1939 "Le Mans" CSF266& HPH750

Postby RON STRIDE » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:52 am

PHOTO OF HPH750 around 1962 as street car
Ron Stride
Attachments
HPH750SURREY1962.jpg
HPH750
HPH750SURREY1962.jpg (88.38 KiB) Viewed 1289 times
RON STRIDE
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:56 am

Re: 1939 "Le Mans" CSF266

Postby Bill Hughes » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:14 pm

I had saved an image of HPH750 from the December 2014 issue of Classic and Sportscar which I do not have the right to attach, taken in 1948 in a racing circuit paddock. It is carrying a single spare wheel in the rear panel (with a gap for the other wheel), and has a disc wheel on the front (rather than an Easiclean). The original spec for the car stated “ special 1” shorter windscreen”, and 17” x 4.75” Dunlop Freighter tyres on Easiclean wheels, it was ordered as a ‘2str Le Mans’. The only mentions of Freighter tyres online are references to Austin trials cars of the period, so it could be that the car was originally purposed as a competition trials vehicle, hence the desire for twin spares on a ‘Le Mans’ spec car. The car was mentioned in the 1984 listing of Series 1s known to the MSCC, but I do not know how that information was gathered or how old the information was.
Bill Hughes
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:44 am
Location: South Wales, UK

Re: 1939 "Le Mans" CSF266 & HPH750

Postby RON STRIDE » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:37 am

Bill, thank you for your successful and comprehensive reply to my request for information on the current ownership and existence of HPH750.
I was over joyed to find that it had not been scrapped.
As previously discussed it was a Le Mans Replica factory modified to a Special for I think Tank Commander David Render. Captain Render in 1947-48 campaigned
HPH750 at the inaugural Goodwood meeting, Brighton Speed Trials, Hillclimbs, Sprints, Rallies, etc. Shortly after Render moved onto more exotic racers with quite a bit of success.
When I acquired HPH750 in 1963 it came with a big box of valuable spare bits, including overhead rocker arm kits, which proved to be fragile if the Climax was
mistreated! I also totally rebuilt the front end after a cross country accident in Nutfield Priory, Redhill. Morgan sold me a complete front frame, only needed drilling to fit and moving everything across.
I will be visiting London in March 2019 and will make every attempt to contact Peter to view HPH750.
Again thank you for finding my teenage dream car!
Ron Stride
Mob +61 418 345 659
rstride@bigpond.net.au
RON STRIDE
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:56 am

Re: 1939 "Le Mans" CSF266 & HPH750

Postby RON STRIDE » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:51 am

HPH750at work
Ron Stride
Attachments
1964 HONEYMOON.jpg
HPH750 ON HONEYMOON DUTY
1964 HONEYMOON.jpg (60.09 KiB) Viewed 855 times
RON STRIDE
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:56 am


Return to Series I Morgans

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest