Original +8 LWT?

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Franz-Xaver Nager
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Original +8 LWT?

Post by Franz-Xaver Nager »

Hi there

i'm new here (after learning & amusement by following sev. chats as a guest...) with the confession of my probably rather naive bafflement concerning the +8 LWTs. I have a friend here with an all alu 1977 +8 (R8323) which as it seems is not one of the "Magnificent 19s" - so what is it?

Question 1 (simple): How do I find detailed info on the LWT originals? (chassis nrs, specification differences, whereabouts...)

Question 2 (maybe not so simple?): If the MMC built all alu +8s in 1977 that were NOT "Lightweights" - what would be the difference (apart from silver rather than black Millrace wheels)?

Thanx in advance for any hints
Franz-Xaver
Tim Hill
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Tim Hill »

Hi Franz-Xaver

Answer to Question 1 - There is a table of all chassis numbers, engine numbers, original colour, build dates and destination on page 123 of Completely Morgan Four Wheelers from 1968 by Ken Hill (no relation)

Answer to question 2 - found on page 60 of the same book

PM me with your details and I will send a scan to you

Best regards
Tim
Leigh Sebba
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Leigh Sebba »

Just to add I owned my 4/4 in the 1970s and had been on the waiting list for a +8 for a number of years. When I came to the top of list around 1976 I was told that they were about to bring out a revised model with 5 speed gearbox (and SD1 Engine) so I delayed another year and my car was bought new in Oct 1977 (R 8304) so your friends car is 19 after mine.

Page 61 Ken Hill says in Jan 1977 the alu body was retained for all side and rear panels. I recall specifying alu and my purchase invoice specifies ‘aluminium body and wings’ for an extra £100

Still have and race the same car today and largely original although the al wings are a nightmare to repair if damaged (luckily very rarely happened)

A 1976 Sports Lightweight is for sale on the Techniques website (although this car is highly modified from the original spec)
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Mary Lindsay
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Mary Lindsay »

Still have and race the same car today and largely original
Sadly not in Class D any more because of a few extra cc's [-X
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Mark Shears
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Mark Shears »

Hi Leigh - I think the limited run (out) 'lightweight' Plus 8's had Rover 4 speed gearboxes...

I imagine several of them have been uprated to your more desirable 5 speed 'box.

Cheers,

Mark
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Mary Lindsay
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Mary Lindsay »

I thought they all had 5 speed boxes from the start and was known as the Plus 8 '77. It had 14" wheels, a 5-speed box and aluminium wings.
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Mark Shears
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Mark Shears »

Hi Mary,

I thought they were ally because there was a short term shortage of steel at the factory, they had the Millrace wheels which were a standard fitment - but painted black.

They all had 4 speed boxes as far as I was aware as production was in 1976 and just before the 5 speed box became standard for 1977...

I am sure Tim will put us straight!

Cheers

Mark
Tim Hill
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Tim Hill »

Hi all
Yes, I found some more information on page 125 of the aforementioned book that shows that the lightweights were produced between October 1975 (chassis R7983) and January 1977 (chassis R8186) and had 4 speed boxes. In October 1976 the factory produced the first 5 speed car for the motorshow - chassis R8151.
In January 1977, the rover 5 speed box was adopted as standard (from chassis R8200). At the same time the SD1 engine with 9:55 to 1 was adopted.

Incidentally, many moons ago I looked at the +8 lwt that is currently for sale via Techniques. It was at Melvin Rutters at the time. Must have been 20 odd years ago. The chassis had rusted through on the rear cross member. I watched its progress and transformation when owned by Philip McElvey? Rather a nice car now...

Cheers Tim
Tim Ayres
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Tim Ayres »

Interesting.

We have a 1977 ( June registered ) + 8 for sale here at New Elms, chassis no: R8246, complete with silver 14" Millrace wheels, 5 speed box, but steel wings and bonnets.

Tim.
Leigh Sebba
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Leigh Sebba »

Mary I did say ‘largely original’ but I needed extra cc s to keep in front of you

(I also still have the 14 inch wheels )
Franz-Xaver Nager
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Franz-Xaver Nager »

Thanx a lot to all of you.
How here we are with the mysteries of Mog production. I wonder if anyone of you might have a technical specifications sheet of the +8 LWT? As it seems there never was a special LWT brochure or owners manual. I did send an e-mail to Martin Webb (hoping he is still with the MMC) asking for those specs but haven't got an answer yet.
According to various books the chassis was widened to 4.4 / 4.5. This might imply correspondence with the specs of the "standard" '77 Plus8 (SD1/5-gear), that also had the 14" Millrace wheels (never saw a pict of those BLACK wheels though!) - so what would be the difference between a "real" LWT and Leigh Sebba's' car? Would there be e.g. a difference in weight?
FX
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Mary Lindsay
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Mary Lindsay »

You might find Hermen Pol's web site a useful source of information.
https://morganhistoryinfo.sharepoint.co ... o1984.aspx
Franz-Xaver Nager
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Franz-Xaver Nager »

Hi Mary
I tried to trace R8059 from Hill's 19-list supposed to be around our mountains. Got as far as to rumours of the owner being an Englishman in the french speaking part and a member of the MSCC (not our Swiss club). Any idea of how to proceed (who to ask at the MSCC) for spotting him?
I'll click the Hermen Pol link - merci bien.
yodelidoo
FX
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Mary Lindsay
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Mary Lindsay »

I suggest you make enquiries with the Membership Secretary Gill Bevan, she might put something in Miscellany for you.
Leigh Sebba
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Re: Original +8 LWT?

Post by Leigh Sebba »

‘so what would be the difference between a "real" LWT and Leigh Sebba's' car?’

If by the ‘real LWT’ you mean the ‘magnificent 19’ as you call them I think we have covered this above

The ‘19’ were 1976 cars with 4 speed gearbox, and in 1977 this was changed to 5 speed and SD1 engine

Another way to find a particular car of this era is to ask the Machiel Kalf Historic Register if any have registered with them

As to the ‘importance’ of the ‘real LWT’ cars – that is open to discussion. Never noticed that much interest in them as compared, say, to the real 1960s +4 super sports.

I am also a bit unclear about the ‘historic papers’ for them for although they were the model for UK production sports car racers (as I think the Ken Hill book says) my understanding is that the only ‘true’ historic papers for a +8 is for the Moss Box cars (up to about 1971) as that is the only +8 to have competed in an international event ‘in period’ (I think in Tour Auto). But I really don’t know much about this :?:
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