+4 wanted

[Kevin Morton]

Wanted TR engined +4 2 str
Preferably post September 1958 (Not bustle back) and preferably RH drive.
Not looking for concours but not a rebuild project either (Still have the 1937 4/4 to do) – Some TLC not objected to.

Kevin Morton

[Mark Shears]

Hi Kevin,

Jim Lowry has a 1964 Plus 4 two seater for sale - in fact he has had it for sale for some time as it does need some work.

However he has recently dropped the price and now describes it as " realistically priced!"

You can see it and the price (and potential work needed) on his website:

www.historique.co.uk

Cheers,

Mark

[Kevin Morton]

Hi Mark

Yes seen that one.
Appreciate that it can be changed but Ideally looking for RH drive ( shame that most were LH export cars).
Would like to avoid wood, and associated metal work, repairs.

There is a 1959 car in NI which I should probably take a look at.

Many thanks

Kevin

[Kevin Morton]

Well I may have found one!

What appears to be a pretty unmolested 1961 +4.
Original chassis looks good as does the bulkhead and body.
Trim is OK.
Drove OK except for poor synchro between 2nd and 3rd.
full weather equipment.
Paint is poor (was last painted at the Factory in 1971) which I can live with it for now but will need repainting to save the metalwork as it will be driven in the rain.
50k miles which may be genuine.
Apparently never restored.
No record of any significant mechanical overhauls.

Trying to figure what a sensible price is in this day and age!
it’s part of my pension pot so I can’t afford to lose too much!
Fully restored examples seem to have recently changed hands for around £33k.
Currently looking at £21k which I think is pretty fair but I would value any comments!

[Eddie Singleton]

Good morning Kevin,

Just noticed your posting here about a 1961 Morgan +4, which from the text I gather you have inspected and driven. My interest has also always been in the 50’s and 60’s TR engined +4’s and have owned a 1967 +4 for 50 years.

These are my initial observations although I have to say I am no expert and there are forum members on here who are far more qualified to comment than me……but here goes :-

- original chassis over 60 + years old, questionable if that does not need replacing….depends on ownership, how driven, how maintained but must be nearer the end of its life than the beginning !!

- issue with the Moss box 2nd/3rd gears, can be rebuilt but at a cost.

- paintwork, again not an insignificant cost if done properly.

- my golden rule is you never know the issues until the car is dismantled and this is where costs become apparent.

It seems to me there is little margin between the asking price and your assumed sale valuation, circa £10k - £12k. Without seeing the car my inclination would be a buying price of £15k - £17k. Few of these cars come to market so you might expect prices to be firm but this category of classic seems subdued at this point, unless there is racing or a particular history attached.

Keep us posted as to how you go, and best of luck.

Eddie Singleton.

[Mary Lindsay]

Hi Kevin,
I have emailed you via bhp.

[Kevin Morton]

Hi Eddie.

Thanks, nice to get another perspective and what you say makes good sense.

Nice to find what appears to be a low mileage car with its original chassis but I agree just how good is it?
From what I could see the chassis looked very sound but we have agreed that I will not buy until a further inspection to check that it has not corroded from the inside out in the usual place. (Can also check the timber).
But perhaps I have a foolhardy notion of maintaining originality!

I agree that there is certainly little or no margin for economic error!
Talking to Billy about the gearbox and others about paint those costs alone could be as much as £10k, but with me doing the box, and with an economic local body shop, I hope they could be less.
The engine and rear axle have not been touched.
The car has only done 240 miles in the past 7 years so will need some recommissioning. - I had to free up a seized rear brake before I could test drive it!

its not my intention to dismantle the car - at least not all at once!
Its not a wreck but what looks like a solid original car but with bad gearbox and paint.
(I already have a 1937 4/4 that needs rebuilding again).

So, your £17k is beginning to make sense but I know that currently it will be a no go.
(May only work if I could argue the need for a new chassis, only as I could fit one myself)
One Morgan dealer has told me not to spend much over £20k.

Is the reality that it is difficult to recoup costs?
As many have told me better to buy the best that you can afford - but I will probably never learn!

Thanks again for the feedback, it’s really useful to help focus the brain and get the grey cells working!

[machiel kalf]

Hallo Kevin,

Why don't you buy a car that's already restored? OK, that's more expensive, but ready to enjoy.

Machiel.

[Kevin Morton]

Hello Machiel

Good to hear from you.
Perhaps you are correct.
But the 61 car still has it's soul left in place!

Best

Kevin

[larry emrick]

Hi Kevin:
Another consideration is what you want to do with it. If you want to go trouble-free touring it might be a stretch but if you are preservation-minded it sounds lovely. An unmolested "61 with only 50 k, (white dials and all?) sounds like a find. With that kind of mileage and apparent condition it probably has not been abused My '63 gave about 80k before a rebuild and it's now just over 100,000 but I have become a bit obsessive about preservation. Front suspension might need attention if it's never been done. How does it feel when you drive? Any hint of wobble at 2,500-3,000 RPM?
Good luck and please post photos if you get it.
Larry Emrick

[Eddie Singleton]

Morning Kevin,

Can I ask, have you emailed me via Brakehorsepower. If so, I am happy to reply using your email address as shown…..just checking as I am always nervous about clicking on an email that I was not expecting !!

Cheers, Eddie.

[Kevin Morton]

Hello Eddie

Yes it was me

Cheers

Kevin

[Kevin Morton]

Hi Larry.

Thanks for your thoughts.

As we say “I want my cake and eat it too"
Certainly not looking for a car to preserve and hardly use.
Quite the opposite, will be used as often as possible and likely some mild competition too (I compete with my 1931 Riley “Special” in the VSCC and did the same with my 1937 4/4 which needs another rebuild)
Been looking for a solid original car that will likely need some TLC, as and when required, but not a full-blown restoration – The 4/4 needs that!

Except for the poor synchro between 2nd and 3rd it seemed to drive OK.
Steering felt a bid "dead" - Not the normal free play that I would expect in the straight ahead position - The box had been rebuilt by Martyn Stendall in about 2006.
Brake pedal was solid and had to free off a rear drum before it could be driven!
So well aware that after only doing around 240 miles in the last 7 years it will need some re-commissioning!

Mechanical repairs do not bother me so I was thinking that this car might just work for me.
Or perhaps I am being too optimistic!

Plan to look at it again soon.

Cheers

Kevin

[Kevin Morton]

Will be looking at the car again in the near future.
The oil pressure gauge is not working so need to rig up something temporary.
Can either remove the pipe from the current gauge and attach another gauge but what fittings are normally used? (flat end or conical?)
Or it might be easier to remove the pressure gauge pipe from the 4 way oiler on the bulkhead and attach a gauge there, again what fittings? (1/8 BSP?)

Thanks

Kevin